1 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:21,830 [Music] 2 00:00:44,450 --> 00:00:42,000 explode the bazaars or e-ticket ride 3 00:00:47,729 --> 00:00:44,460 into the world of the paranormal 4 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:47,739 strap yourself in as we traverse the 5 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:52,050 universe exploring the unexplained UFO s 6 00:00:57,540 --> 00:00:55,170 ghosts Lost Worlds 7 00:01:01,380 --> 00:00:57,550 cryptozoology waters as well as other 8 00:01:06,540 --> 00:01:01,390 dimensions it's time to take back the 9 00:01:09,630 --> 00:01:06,550 night now your electrifying hosts of 10 00:01:14,910 --> 00:01:09,640 exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley and 11 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:14,920 team sports that is correct 12 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:18,130 you tuned into exploring the bizarre I'm 13 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:21,130 Tim Schwartz and tonight we're pleased 14 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:24,250 to have our special co-host Diane 15 00:01:29,460 --> 00:01:27,610 Tessman with us as Tim Beckley art 16 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:29,470 rustle trustee fellow traveler of 17 00:01:35,490 --> 00:01:32,740 parallel worlds is taking the evening 18 00:01:39,029 --> 00:01:35,500 off to mourn the passing of his niece 19 00:01:41,249 --> 00:01:39,039 Dorie Ann's husband Ricky who passed 20 00:01:44,190 --> 00:01:41,259 away during the night unfortunately 21 00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:44,200 after a longtime illness now Ricky was a 22 00:01:49,969 --> 00:01:46,840 good man with a warm heart and a sense 23 00:01:53,219 --> 00:01:49,979 of humor and he will be missed by his 24 00:01:56,190 --> 00:01:53,229 extended family clan and his rings bound 25 00:01:59,490 --> 00:01:56,200 to explore new worlds so were we here 26 00:02:02,160 --> 00:01:59,500 case you are and welcome to our 27 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:02,170 microphones the Diane I am really happy 28 00:02:09,089 --> 00:02:04,090 that you could be with us tonight 29 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:09,099 yeah good evening good evening to you so 30 00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:12,160 it's been awhile since we've had you on 31 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:15,550 our show and tonight you're serving as a 32 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:17,650 as a co-host that I know that you're 33 00:02:24,479 --> 00:02:20,650 excited about being on tonight's show 34 00:02:28,110 --> 00:02:24,489 because our our guest tonight is Mark 35 00:02:30,690 --> 00:02:28,120 Cushman now let me make a little bit of 36 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:30,700 an introduction to everybody for mark 37 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:33,310 now mark is an author and los 38 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:35,950 angeles-based screenwriter director his 39 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:38,170 television writing assignments include 40 00:02:43,229 --> 00:02:39,910 scripts for Star Trek The Next 41 00:02:45,690 --> 00:02:43,239 Generation both beyond belief fact and 42 00:02:47,369 --> 00:02:45,700 fiction and diagnosis murder 43 00:02:50,220 --> 00:02:47,379 now his feature film credits include 44 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:50,230 desperately seeking Paul McCartney the 45 00:02:54,390 --> 00:02:52,090 magic of 46 00:02:56,580 --> 00:02:54,400 and in the eyes of a killer and as a 47 00:02:59,310 --> 00:02:56,590 producer as a writer producer mark 48 00:03:02,450 --> 00:02:59,320 created and served as a showrunner for 49 00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:02,460 two TV series the the cult comedy 50 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:05,380 channel Kay which I love that one and 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:08,110 it's spin-off the original bachelor pad 52 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:10,690 now mark is also the author of the 53 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:14,650 biography of a TV show I spy a history 54 00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:17,110 of the groundbreaking television series 55 00:03:22,770 --> 00:03:20,110 and the definitive examination of the 56 00:03:26,130 --> 00:03:22,780 making of the original Star Trek series 57 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:26,140 which is a three volume set these are 58 00:03:32,220 --> 00:03:30,340 the voyages TOS so mark thank you very 59 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:32,230 very much for being with us tonight on 60 00:03:37,620 --> 00:03:35,050 exploring the bizarre hi Tim thank you 61 00:03:40,620 --> 00:03:37,630 for the wonderful introduction and and 62 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:40,630 hello Diane hi we may have to talk about 63 00:03:45,420 --> 00:03:43,150 beyond belief fact or fiction it seems 64 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:45,430 to fit into your show yeah oh definitely 65 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:48,340 I have been told by a by Tim Buckley 66 00:03:54,270 --> 00:03:50,050 that we'll definitely need to bring that 67 00:03:58,800 --> 00:03:54,280 one up well let me let me start out 68 00:04:02,100 --> 00:03:58,810 first by by asking you now you know your 69 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:02,110 your your credit say that you know you 70 00:04:08,490 --> 00:04:04,870 are you know watch others play 71 00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:08,500 screenwriter and a director so now I 72 00:04:14,630 --> 00:04:10,150 know that there are a lot of people out 73 00:04:17,430 --> 00:04:14,640 there who would love that kind of 74 00:04:20,159 --> 00:04:17,440 position how did you get interested 75 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:20,169 first of all in in doing something like 76 00:04:24,420 --> 00:04:22,750 that well I was interested when I was a 77 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:24,430 kid and I was in front of the television 78 00:04:30,630 --> 00:04:28,090 set in and and movie and movies too 79 00:04:33,659 --> 00:04:30,640 because you know nothing moved to me 80 00:04:35,159 --> 00:04:33,669 more than movies and TV you know if we 81 00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:35,169 could have all the things they have in 82 00:04:39,150 --> 00:04:37,540 our lives if we could if you're 83 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:39,160 proposing to a woman and you're hearing 84 00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:41,530 all that soft music coming in and the 85 00:04:46,380 --> 00:04:42,910 nice soft lighting and everything 86 00:04:48,510 --> 00:04:46,390 imagine how our lifes would be and I saw 87 00:04:49,950 --> 00:04:48,520 that and I thought man you know I could 88 00:04:51,420 --> 00:04:49,960 just put the stories together and I 89 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:51,430 could hear the music and see the cutting 90 00:04:56,130 --> 00:04:53,890 and and everything else and but mostly 91 00:04:57,750 --> 00:04:56,140 how it not only entertained me and 92 00:04:59,310 --> 00:04:57,760 informed me if it was a good show if it 93 00:05:02,580 --> 00:04:59,320 was a good movie you'd feel enlightened 94 00:05:04,110 --> 00:05:02,590 by it but but how you were moved and if 95 00:05:05,339 --> 00:05:04,120 it was good there's a lot of junk out 96 00:05:07,529 --> 00:05:05,349 there back then and 97 00:05:09,329 --> 00:05:07,539 and now but but the good stuff could 98 00:05:12,089 --> 00:05:09,339 really get in and touch you and move you 99 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:12,099 and take you into worlds that you had 100 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:13,990 never thought about Twilight Zone Outer 101 00:05:19,409 --> 00:05:16,289 Limits beyond belief you call that stuff 102 00:05:21,899 --> 00:05:19,419 yeah and and so I just knew from the age 103 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:21,909 of about seven that that's what I wanted 104 00:05:28,019 --> 00:05:25,960 to do they say that children shouldn't 105 00:05:30,239 --> 00:05:28,029 watch so much TV 106 00:05:32,129 --> 00:05:30,249 they said it back when I was a kid I 107 00:05:35,429 --> 00:05:32,139 won't speak for today I don't know 108 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:35,439 because I don't watch it as much but as 109 00:05:41,609 --> 00:05:38,770 a kid it meant so much and I read books 110 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:41,619 too and I wasn't a dummy and I didn't go 111 00:05:47,159 --> 00:05:44,020 up to be a dummy because I watched a lot 112 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:47,169 of TV I played hooky and went and 113 00:05:53,939 --> 00:05:51,520 watched TV sometimes and and it actually 114 00:05:56,670 --> 00:05:53,949 like you were saying it gave me a whole 115 00:06:00,989 --> 00:05:56,680 nother world and it was a friend 116 00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:00,999 actually or different a different kinda 117 00:06:08,609 --> 00:06:05,860 kid and you know it was a good influence 118 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:08,619 in my life but I did pick the good shows 119 00:06:14,459 --> 00:06:12,550 I knew enough to do that yeah and a lot 120 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:14,469 of people don't and a lot of people 121 00:06:19,529 --> 00:06:17,050 watch stuff that is just mindless and 122 00:06:21,029 --> 00:06:19,539 and they're not learning anything from 123 00:06:22,739 --> 00:06:21,039 it they're just wasting their life in 124 00:06:25,909 --> 00:06:22,749 front of the television but if you if 125 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:25,919 you choose well it can be a great 126 00:06:32,009 --> 00:06:29,409 entertainment source educational source 127 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:32,019 and emotional source because we we 128 00:06:35,309 --> 00:06:33,789 learned so much by other people's 129 00:06:36,449 --> 00:06:35,319 examples you know when you're going 130 00:06:37,739 --> 00:06:36,459 through stuff especially when you're 131 00:06:39,509 --> 00:06:37,749 young and a teenager 132 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:39,519 god forbid when I was a teenager I'd 133 00:06:42,989 --> 00:06:40,330 would never want to go through that 134 00:06:45,509 --> 00:06:42,999 again and you're going through this 135 00:06:47,129 --> 00:06:45,519 it was so helpful if you could turn on 136 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:47,139 TV and see somebody who was going 137 00:06:51,209 --> 00:06:48,610 through which you were going through and 138 00:06:53,129 --> 00:06:51,219 realized that hey I'm not alone there 139 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:53,139 was a Star Trek episode one of the first 140 00:06:57,689 --> 00:06:55,330 the first series the first season of the 141 00:07:01,949 --> 00:06:57,699 first series an episode called Charlie X 142 00:07:03,989 --> 00:07:01,959 with Robert Walker jr. yeah now DC 143 00:07:06,089 --> 00:07:03,999 Fontana wrote that and and she's a 144 00:07:07,170 --> 00:07:06,099 friend of mine and I told Dorothy over 145 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:07,180 dinner one night and I said you know I 146 00:07:11,609 --> 00:07:09,849 was I was maybe 13 12 or 13 when I saw 147 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:11,619 that thing and I was going through my 148 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:14,529 first crush now my stomach was turning 149 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:16,449 inside out and I was feeling sick and I 150 00:07:18,930 --> 00:07:17,889 couldn't go to any of my friends and say 151 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:18,940 this because you feel 152 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:20,890 Barriss you feel you're the only one 153 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:23,530 who's ever felt this you know and then I 154 00:07:27,690 --> 00:07:25,690 turned on that show and here's Charlie 155 00:07:29,130 --> 00:07:27,700 Evans in love with yeoman Rand and he 156 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:29,140 doesn't know what to do about it he goes 157 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:31,420 to sees Captain Kirk and he says I don't 158 00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:34,090 know why I feel sick inside all the time 159 00:07:38,550 --> 00:07:36,160 and and he says Charlie what you're 160 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:38,560 going through is what every man has gone 161 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:40,330 through since the model came out you 162 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:43,090 know and and I heard that and Here I am 163 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:44,410 twelve thirteen years old and I'm 164 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:46,210 hearing that and it's a talk that my dad 165 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:48,580 never had with me and it just really 166 00:07:54,780 --> 00:07:51,490 consoled me and I realized I wasn't 167 00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:54,790 alone and man that's what TV can do for 168 00:07:58,050 --> 00:07:56,470 you if you're choosing right and that 169 00:08:00,360 --> 00:07:58,060 was a show that had great stories 170 00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:00,370 because it always had great themes it 171 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:12,760 was always about something and how much 172 00:08:18,390 --> 00:08:15,340 of us as adolescents as teenagers wish 173 00:08:20,190 --> 00:08:18,400 we could make the bully go away like 174 00:08:22,710 --> 00:08:20,200 Charlie Evans could just kind of close 175 00:08:26,750 --> 00:08:22,720 your eyes and he's gonna vanish thank 176 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:32,909 to say okay so now how did you first get 177 00:08:36,890 --> 00:08:35,169 involved in the production of Star Trek 178 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:36,900 was the Star Trek The Next Generation 179 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:41,410 yes I well it started I interviewed Gene 180 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:43,630 Roddenberry for a TV special in the Los 181 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:49,090 Angeles area and 82 and I was very young 182 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:51,850 you know I was 20 22 or something and I 183 00:08:54,570 --> 00:08:53,350 was working for this production company 184 00:08:57,330 --> 00:08:54,580 and they were going to be doing a 185 00:08:59,490 --> 00:08:57,340 one-hour special on Star Trek which at 186 00:09:01,410 --> 00:08:59,500 that point the first movie was out and 187 00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:01,420 the second movie was about to be 188 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:04,240 released at the con and so they sent me 189 00:09:09,450 --> 00:09:06,130 over to they found out that I knew the 190 00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:09,460 show well and they said oh will you go 191 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:12,760 you go interview them to talk about your 192 00:09:16,170 --> 00:09:14,980 stomach-turning inside and out right and 193 00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:16,180 so I had to go to over to Paramount 194 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:19,030 Studios an interview gene and and it was 195 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:20,470 tremendous it was just a wonderful 196 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:23,290 experience and so that's how I met him 197 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:26,080 and thing about Gene Roddenberry is he 198 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:27,490 kept in touch with people now here's a 199 00:09:31,590 --> 00:09:29,260 guy who wrote hundreds of scripts in his 200 00:09:32,910 --> 00:09:31,600 life right and did so many things before 201 00:09:34,980 --> 00:09:32,920 he was a writer I mean he was an early 202 00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:34,990 police officer went to sergeant before 203 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:37,060 that he was a pilot in World War two a 204 00:09:42,870 --> 00:09:40,180 bomber pilot in the Pacific and so on 205 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:42,880 but this guy correspondent constantly I 206 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:44,980 mean his files are filled with letters 207 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:46,600 that he would write to fans and just 208 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:48,640 keep in touch with people we did that 209 00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:51,910 with me too and and I would get the cars 210 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:53,680 on the holidays from him and of course 211 00:09:58,110 --> 00:09:56,080 write back and and everything I couldn't 212 00:10:01,020 --> 00:09:58,120 believe that he was doing that Who am I 213 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:01,030 you know but when when next generation 214 00:10:07,170 --> 00:10:05,050 came on I called him up and I said 215 00:10:10,050 --> 00:10:07,180 congratulations it's great you give that 216 00:10:12,090 --> 00:10:10,060 show back on I've been watching it and I 217 00:10:13,980 --> 00:10:12,100 think it's really good could I come in 218 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:13,990 and pitch a few stories and he said 219 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:17,530 absolutely not come into yeah I mean you 220 00:10:21,390 --> 00:10:19,510 think these things don't happen but it's 221 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:21,400 all about relationships it is and I've 222 00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:22,990 known him for several years and I'd 223 00:10:28,829 --> 00:10:26,800 never well from 82 to 87 yeah in those 224 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:28,839 five years I had never asked a favor I'd 225 00:10:33,329 --> 00:10:31,120 never done anything other than send him 226 00:10:35,610 --> 00:10:33,339 a nice card and wish him well and things 227 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:35,620 like that and so when I said that he 228 00:10:38,430 --> 00:10:37,510 said come on in so I went into Paramount 229 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:38,440 and I pitched 230 00:10:43,530 --> 00:10:41,290 several stories to him and one of them 231 00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:43,540 was Sarek and that was an episode they 232 00:10:49,500 --> 00:10:46,000 made during the third season about a 233 00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:49,510 Vulcan going through senility and so you 234 00:10:54,690 --> 00:10:52,720 know he welcomed me in and I and I told 235 00:10:56,220 --> 00:10:54,700 him I had read a book when I was young 236 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:56,230 called the making of Star Trek which was 237 00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:57,850 written while the show was still being 238 00:11:01,770 --> 00:11:00,160 made so it's not a definitive book on 239 00:11:03,630 --> 00:11:01,780 the whole show it just kind of shows you 240 00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:03,640 how it got started and gives you an 241 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:05,200 inside look but it's a brilliant book 242 00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:08,410 Stephen Whitfield wrote it and and it 243 00:11:11,550 --> 00:11:10,180 was the first book I ever saw they kind 244 00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:11,560 of took you into the world of what it is 245 00:11:15,210 --> 00:11:14,320 to make a TV show and I asked Jane I 246 00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:15,220 said you know that was filled with 247 00:11:19,050 --> 00:11:16,870 mammals it was a great showing how you 248 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:19,060 came up with the concept did you guys 249 00:11:23,940 --> 00:11:21,490 keep that stuff for every episode and he 250 00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:23,950 said yeah and they like 45 boxes filled 251 00:11:27,810 --> 00:11:25,839 with memos and production records and 252 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:27,820 everything else I said well gene you 253 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:30,130 know I've got five books at home on 254 00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:33,850 Citizen Kane and more people have seen 255 00:11:38,699 --> 00:11:36,459 any single episode of Star Trek more 256 00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:38,709 people have seen the way to Eden which 257 00:11:41,699 --> 00:11:40,240 is not one of the better ones that have 258 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:41,709 seen Citizen Kane 259 00:11:46,450 --> 00:11:44,180 so Citizen Kane rates five books and 260 00:11:47,980 --> 00:11:46,460 there's probably 20 of them out I said I 261 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:47,990 feel like every episode of Star Trek 262 00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:51,050 rates a book and and he said write it 263 00:11:55,570 --> 00:11:53,660 well we're not gonna write 80 books but 264 00:11:57,730 --> 00:11:55,580 I wrote three books one for each season 265 00:12:00,070 --> 00:11:57,740 and these books are like 600 700 pages 266 00:12:02,380 --> 00:12:00,080 long and each episode has a 20 page 267 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:02,390 chapter with the memos and all the 268 00:12:06,670 --> 00:12:04,310 information so you feel like you're 269 00:12:08,980 --> 00:12:06,680 there witnessing every episode being 270 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:08,990 written and produced and it took years 271 00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:09,649 to do it 272 00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:17,600 so you've read them good thank you well 273 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:20,270 he was so helpful you know he said I'll 274 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:22,370 help you I mean not co-write them with 275 00:12:27,250 --> 00:12:24,410 you but whatever you need and he gave me 276 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:27,260 all the scripts to the show he gave me 277 00:12:30,910 --> 00:12:28,850 access to his memos and all the 278 00:12:34,030 --> 00:12:30,920 production records which was just like a 279 00:12:35,380 --> 00:12:34,040 kid in a candy shop for me and to go 280 00:12:37,540 --> 00:12:35,390 through all these memos and they would 281 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:37,550 be 20 page memos from a gene poun I 282 00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:38,810 don't think ever wrote a memo that was 283 00:12:43,389 --> 00:12:41,360 less than 20 pages I'm on every draft of 284 00:12:46,090 --> 00:12:43,399 every script he'd read a 10-page 285 00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,100 treatment and send the writer a 20 page 286 00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:48,560 memo that some of these writers would 287 00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,720 write back and say can't you call me 288 00:12:54,850 --> 00:12:52,160 with the notes do I have to read another 289 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:54,860 20 page memo so it was fun reading this 290 00:12:58,750 --> 00:12:56,810 stuff and bringing it into the book in 291 00:13:00,730 --> 00:12:58,760 sections so you can get a sense of their 292 00:13:03,250 --> 00:13:00,740 personalities and what they went through 293 00:13:05,199 --> 00:13:03,260 but gene also then introduced me to Bob 294 00:13:08,110 --> 00:13:05,209 justman his co-producer he introduced me 295 00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:08,120 to John DF black the associate producer 296 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:10,550 to Dorothy Fontana the story editor and 297 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,290 then they started introducing me to 298 00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:14,480 people and over the course of years 299 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:16,190 there's about several years I 300 00:13:19,660 --> 00:13:18,170 interviewed over a hundred people and 301 00:13:21,579 --> 00:13:19,670 went to ten tens of thousands of 302 00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:21,589 documents and that's what you have in 303 00:13:27,130 --> 00:13:24,680 those three books well I can certainly 304 00:13:30,610 --> 00:13:27,140 tell from going through these books you 305 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:30,620 know like like Diana I've read all three 306 00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:32,510 of them and unfortunately hadn't had the 307 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:35,300 chance you know until just recently to 308 00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:40,130 read the one about gene Roddenberry that 309 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:46,399 just came out but I could certainly tell 310 00:13:54,370 --> 00:13:51,290 that you had just a tremendous amount of 311 00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:54,380 source material that you had to go 312 00:14:00,540 --> 00:13:57,160 through now was there any say anything 313 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:00,550 from this material that you looked at 314 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:02,970 and just desperately wanted to include 315 00:14:07,410 --> 00:14:06,610 but you know space just just - just did 316 00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:07,420 not allow it 317 00:14:16,259 --> 00:14:11,649 oh god yes yes because you know every 318 00:14:17,999 --> 00:14:16,269 episode had hundreds of memos and and I 319 00:14:19,259 --> 00:14:18,009 put in you know the production reports I 320 00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:19,269 don't put in the actual reports because 321 00:14:23,610 --> 00:14:22,000 they were 20 pages long but I distill 322 00:14:26,189 --> 00:14:23,620 the information so you know what was 323 00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:26,199 shot where and when and what went wrong 324 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:29,620 and what went right but for me a lot of 325 00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:31,810 the fun was the the actual memos seeing 326 00:14:35,009 --> 00:14:33,310 the scripts being developed because I'm 327 00:14:38,759 --> 00:14:35,019 a script writer so that was fun 328 00:14:41,939 --> 00:14:38,769 and and did you agree that Roddenberry 329 00:14:45,329 --> 00:14:41,949 and Kuhn and justman were great mentors 330 00:14:47,579 --> 00:14:45,339 to all these writers I mean the memos 331 00:14:50,129 --> 00:14:47,589 they would send would kind of give the 332 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:50,139 writers such great direction on where to 333 00:14:54,420 --> 00:14:51,970 take the characters and what to do and 334 00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,430 what may be missing from the script and 335 00:14:59,129 --> 00:14:57,040 it was like man they're giving you like 336 00:15:01,889 --> 00:14:59,139 a screenwriting course with that 337 00:15:05,309 --> 00:15:01,899 assignment for free and it was just 338 00:15:07,050 --> 00:15:05,319 remarkable seeing that stuff so but yeah 339 00:15:09,689 --> 00:15:07,060 there were a lot of lots of material 340 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:09,699 that I couldn't put in there you know 341 00:15:14,730 --> 00:15:11,889 the my publisher was very gracious to 342 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:14,740 let these be three big books but they 343 00:15:23,809 --> 00:15:17,410 could have been three big books series 344 00:15:28,889 --> 00:15:26,720 when you mentioned gene Roddenberry 345 00:15:31,949 --> 00:15:28,899 corresponding with so many people and 346 00:15:35,490 --> 00:15:31,959 keeping that going he started the well 347 00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:35,500 committee which I was on and I answered 348 00:15:39,540 --> 00:15:38,529 Oh hundreds of letters people would 349 00:15:42,420 --> 00:15:39,550 write 350 00:15:44,549 --> 00:15:42,430 yeah I had my captain with Shirley music 351 00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:44,559 I never know how to say her name you ski 352 00:15:54,929 --> 00:15:49,360 yells who wrote my sister for the new 353 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:54,939 voyages paperback book and so we had 354 00:16:00,840 --> 00:15:57,370 captains and then we underlings I 355 00:16:04,319 --> 00:16:00,850 assumed my captain wrote letters to but 356 00:16:07,499 --> 00:16:04,329 we answered or that she answered letters 357 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:07,509 too but we answered tons of letters from 358 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:10,690 fans that just wanted to know everything 359 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:13,090 I mean every question Under the Sun and 360 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:16,690 that's kind of a somehow connected to 361 00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:20,950 all of Jenkins memos and all the yeah it 362 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:24,070 was just a wellspring of it was magic 363 00:16:29,550 --> 00:16:27,670 damn it and you know I'm a curious 364 00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:29,560 fellow as you can tell by the books 365 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:31,240 because who but a curious bellman would 366 00:16:36,990 --> 00:16:34,450 go that deep right but I would watch 367 00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:37,000 these these shows and it was in one 368 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:38,440 series that I watch there were many but 369 00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:40,570 it was my favorite I I thought it had 370 00:16:44,820 --> 00:16:43,000 just was terrific writing on that show 371 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:44,830 and great acting and for its time 372 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:47,050 state-of-the-art special effects and so 373 00:16:54,390 --> 00:16:51,610 forth and you know you'd see a episode 374 00:16:56,070 --> 00:16:54,400 like arena where Kirk fights the Goren 375 00:16:58,890 --> 00:16:56,080 monster and it's a great one its iconic 376 00:17:00,990 --> 00:16:58,900 its classic as a very next week they 377 00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:01,000 filmed an episode called the alternative 378 00:17:08,579 --> 00:17:04,780 factor which really the best and any 379 00:17:10,650 --> 00:17:08,589 wonders now how can the same people do 380 00:17:13,170 --> 00:17:10,660 brilliance and then the next week miss 381 00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:13,180 it and more often than not Star Trek hit 382 00:17:16,980 --> 00:17:15,040 brilliance but but there were some duds 383 00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:16,990 in there and you wonder what happened 384 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,689 and that's what I would have to find out 385 00:17:23,939 --> 00:17:21,520 I'd have to go in and find out what went 386 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:23,949 wrong with this episode because the 387 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:26,290 talents there they've proven that time 388 00:17:30,810 --> 00:17:28,510 and time again how come they're so off 389 00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:30,820 the mark with this one episode and in 390 00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:34,720 that particular case they had hired John 391 00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:37,420 drew barrymore to play Lazarus good and 392 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:39,190 bad from the one universe in the 393 00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:40,930 alternate universe and John drew 394 00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:43,150 barrymore was a you know a big name and 395 00:17:46,860 --> 00:17:45,190 the network was very excited and they 396 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:46,870 cast a woman to be in the show that the 397 00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:48,310 network didn't know called Janice 398 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:49,720 mcLaughlin 399 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:51,910 now she sounds like a good Scottish girl 400 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:54,250 right that she was a black stage actress 401 00:17:59,730 --> 00:17:57,090 out of New York and there was a love 402 00:18:02,400 --> 00:17:59,740 romance between them in the script a 403 00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:02,410 Lazarus produces her to get the crystals 404 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:03,790 that's why she's in the episode in the 405 00:18:07,410 --> 00:18:05,290 first place that's why you think we're 406 00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:07,420 Scottie well he couldn't seduce Scottie 407 00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:11,470 at least not in 1966 right and and so it 408 00:18:14,850 --> 00:18:13,060 was this woman and the network had no 409 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:14,860 issues with it and then you know you 410 00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:16,450 find out oh it's going to be an 411 00:18:21,630 --> 00:18:18,760 interracial situation and nobody was 412 00:18:22,650 --> 00:18:21,640 ready for that yet and NBC was was out 413 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:22,660 there more than any of the other 414 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:24,400 networks they've been doing I spy 415 00:18:28,260 --> 00:18:26,410 which was the first show to put a white 416 00:18:29,610 --> 00:18:28,270 and black together I wrote you Tim 417 00:18:32,250 --> 00:18:29,620 mentioned I wrote a book on that one too 418 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:32,260 and so it's not that they were 419 00:18:36,510 --> 00:18:34,210 prejudiced or anything along that line 420 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:36,520 but it's like what will the viewing 421 00:18:41,130 --> 00:18:37,930 audience think what will the southern 422 00:18:43,890 --> 00:18:41,140 affiliates think and so forth so it was 423 00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:43,900 suggested that maybe this should come 424 00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,270 out of the script or there should be 425 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:48,160 some recasting jin-kun didn't want to 426 00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:50,110 recast it for that reason god bless him 427 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:52,300 so he gutted the script he took the love 428 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:53,890 story out and that was really the thing 429 00:18:59,130 --> 00:18:56,890 that made that story and he did this the 430 00:19:00,960 --> 00:18:59,140 day before they started production so 431 00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:00,970 John drew barrymore comes in he sits in 432 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:02,710 the makeup chair he sees the revised 433 00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:05,050 pages and it's like I didn't agree to 434 00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,080 this story and he walks and William 435 00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:10,000 Shatner they go to we're supposed to our 436 00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:11,200 shooting so they're juggling the 437 00:19:15,690 --> 00:19:13,030 schedule which is going to make any 438 00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:15,700 house of cards fall down and Shatner 439 00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:18,580 said well I know a buddy Robert Brown we 440 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:19,960 did a pilot together a few years ago 441 00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:21,850 he's a damn good actor and I know he's 442 00:19:24,690 --> 00:19:23,200 not working today because it's his 443 00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:24,700 birthday and they were having a party 444 00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:27,820 out of Malibu at his house so he and I 445 00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:29,920 got his number so they called brown and 446 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:31,390 he says can you come out to Paramount 447 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:34,510 and he said sure and he left thinking he 448 00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:35,770 would only be leaking for a few hours 449 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:38,380 drive out there and talk to them and 450 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:40,570 drive home he walks out and he arrives 451 00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:42,130 and Roddenberry puts his arm around his 452 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:43,240 shoulder and says well here's the script 453 00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:46,170 let me walk you to makeup it's like what 454 00:19:51,030 --> 00:19:49,180 well you're playing this character who's 455 00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:51,040 from an alternate universe he's is a 456 00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:53,620 what and and it's and and the enterprise 457 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:55,300 comes along the starship he says the 458 00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:57,010 what he hadn't even seen the show 459 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:00,400 because this was first season and and so 460 00:20:05,670 --> 00:20:03,280 by changing the schedule around by 461 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:05,680 recasting at the last minute by having 462 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:08,770 the script compromised the way it was to 463 00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:10,810 please the network everything started 464 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:13,240 falling apart and and so that's that's 465 00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:16,210 one example of how things can go wrong 466 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:19,840 on a show and and the other ones that 467 00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:20,850 didn't work out so good 468 00:20:25,860 --> 00:20:24,190 usually was for reasons like that not 469 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:25,870 specifically like that something that 470 00:20:30,150 --> 00:20:27,370 would happen that would start a domino 471 00:20:33,450 --> 00:20:30,160 effect so for me it's fun to go in and 472 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:33,460 dig and find that these these things and 473 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:34,930 put it all together it's like solving a 474 00:20:38,190 --> 00:20:37,660 mystery well and plus people don't 475 00:20:40,259 --> 00:20:38,200 realize 476 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:40,269 you know what a madhouse it is trying to 477 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:43,330 put out a weekly series you know just 478 00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:45,460 you know it's it's you know just a lot 479 00:20:50,879 --> 00:20:48,820 of rushing around and you know sometimes 480 00:20:52,169 --> 00:20:50,889 one shot if you can get away with it and 481 00:20:52,889 --> 00:20:52,179 then you know we got to move on to the 482 00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:52,899 next one 483 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:55,840 and so I mean I could easily see how you 484 00:21:01,139 --> 00:20:58,450 know like you said one episode can just 485 00:21:02,399 --> 00:21:01,149 be absolutely golden and then the next 486 00:21:06,930 --> 00:21:02,409 one just you know falls through the 487 00:21:10,979 --> 00:21:06,940 rafters sort of an opposite example 488 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:10,989 Shirley's I remember really yeah I loved 489 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:13,330 it but I remember reading in your book 490 00:21:19,619 --> 00:21:15,970 that Shatner and the director were kind 491 00:21:22,229 --> 00:21:19,629 of at odds ralston asking and they it 492 00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:22,239 was low-budget as usual they were short 493 00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:25,480 of time it all the schedule kind of fell 494 00:21:32,609 --> 00:21:29,289 apart and they made an iconic episode I 495 00:21:35,729 --> 00:21:32,619 mean there was just so that's sort of 496 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:35,739 the opposite of altered alternative 497 00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:38,830 factor yeah it was excellent they shot 498 00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:41,200 that out at Africa USA which was near 499 00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:42,820 Vasquez rocks matter of fact they shot 500 00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:44,769 part of it over in baskets to the same 501 00:21:49,499 --> 00:21:46,840 place they did arena and that's a good 502 00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:49,509 hour and a half from the studio out in 503 00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:52,960 the desert and Africa USA was a place 504 00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:54,820 where they later did Daktari and they 505 00:21:57,779 --> 00:21:56,289 had all these animals there and they had 506 00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:57,789 tropical plants and they had a little 507 00:22:02,099 --> 00:21:59,919 pond that looked like a lake so it was a 508 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:02,109 great location for them but there was no 509 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:03,730 fax machines back then there was no 510 00:22:09,509 --> 00:22:06,090 internet there was no cell phones and 511 00:22:12,299 --> 00:22:09,519 and gene had gone on vacation the week 512 00:22:14,009 --> 00:22:12,309 before and NBC had asked him to do a 513 00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:14,019 rewrite on the script because they felt 514 00:22:18,330 --> 00:22:16,600 it opened it was too fantasy oriented 515 00:22:20,729 --> 00:22:18,340 for this show and they didn't want it to 516 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:20,739 be that far out and they really had a 517 00:22:24,479 --> 00:22:22,840 problem with the white rabbit looking at 518 00:22:28,409 --> 00:22:24,489 some watch and saying oh my Paul is I'm 519 00:22:30,659 --> 00:22:28,419 late I'm late and so he took that out he 520 00:22:32,580 --> 00:22:30,669 did a rewrite and he comes back from his 521 00:22:34,289 --> 00:22:32,590 trip the day they start filming and he 522 00:22:35,849 --> 00:22:34,299 goes into his office and sits down and 523 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:35,859 there's his rewrites sitting on the desk 524 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:37,690 he had forgotten to send it over to Jean 525 00:22:42,419 --> 00:22:40,090 Koon so they're out there shooting the 526 00:22:46,229 --> 00:22:42,429 script that NBC had insisted had to be 527 00:22:48,089 --> 00:22:46,239 changed so he drove out to Africa USA 528 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:48,099 took him a couple hours he gets out 529 00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:50,470 there and they said there was a cloud of 530 00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:51,680 dust as his car 531 00:22:56,770 --> 00:22:54,980 Racing and he sat under a tree because 532 00:22:59,050 --> 00:22:56,780 they had already filmed that scene and a 533 00:23:01,840 --> 00:22:59,060 bunch of other stuff so he had to do 534 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:01,850 additional rewriting to try to explain 535 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:04,130 the fantasy elements a little better to 536 00:23:08,380 --> 00:23:06,650 NBC's liking and so that thing really 537 00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:08,390 kind of hit a bunch of bumps but it 538 00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:10,340 turned out beautifully and that's the 539 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:12,350 one if you watch that episode again this 540 00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:14,690 is how I love and investigate I always 541 00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:17,240 wondered why does that tiger have a 542 00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:20,720 collar and a chain around his neck oh if 543 00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:22,400 you remember the shot of the tiger it's 544 00:23:25,330 --> 00:23:24,200 wearing a collar and a chain and I 545 00:23:26,890 --> 00:23:25,340 thought that doesn't make any sense 546 00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:26,900 they're frightened of it and they run 547 00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:28,550 away but it's got a collar and a chain 548 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:32,000 on how come well you know Diane from 549 00:23:37,090 --> 00:23:35,090 reading it it got loose and it went 550 00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:37,100 after Shatner and he had to climb up on 551 00:23:41,170 --> 00:23:38,720 top of a grip truck to keep from getting 552 00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:41,180 killed by this thing so when it came 553 00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:43,520 time to shoot it nobody was going to 554 00:23:51,610 --> 00:23:49,520 take the chain off Diane I'm gonna have 555 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:51,620 to interrupt you here because to go to 556 00:23:56,590 --> 00:23:54,410 our bottom of the hour break so I can 557 00:23:59,770 --> 00:23:56,600 contain that thought when we come back 558 00:24:10,870 --> 00:23:59,780 you can continue that on exploring the 559 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:15,050 now back to exploring the bazaars with 560 00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:17,610 two of the most electrifying researchers 561 00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:20,940 in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca 562 00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:26,070 Lee panting lists welcome back to 563 00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:27,900 exploring the bazaar on Tim Schwartz 564 00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:32,190 with me tonight is the ever lovely and 565 00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:35,430 vivacious Diane Testament and our guest 566 00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:39,720 mark Cushman now mark we were in in the 567 00:24:43,460 --> 00:24:41,100 first segment of the program we were 568 00:24:46,090 --> 00:24:43,470 talking about a star trek the books is 569 00:24:48,410 --> 00:24:46,100 written of the all the absolutely 570 00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:48,420 wonderful material that you're able to 571 00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:53,040 get your hands on dealing with the the 572 00:24:59,390 --> 00:24:56,340 back background production things like 573 00:25:01,880 --> 00:24:59,400 that and here you know here we are 574 00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:01,890 singing the accolades of the original 575 00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:05,370 Star Trek series but unfortunately it 576 00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:08,310 was not that popular with with with the 577 00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:12,240 network NBC yeah it you know that that 578 00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:13,980 show really stepped over the limit in 579 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:16,500 every way imaginable as far as the 580 00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:18,360 network was concerned mm-hmm 581 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:20,070 you have to kind of get in that time 582 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:22,170 machine and go back there to 1966 583 00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:26,010 through 69 and you know you couldn't 584 00:25:31,060 --> 00:25:28,470 talk about current events on 585 00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:31,070 entertainment shows on NBC in primetime 586 00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:33,120 that was for the news division 587 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:34,590 you know the entertainment division 588 00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:36,650 wasn't supposed to be talking about 589 00:25:45,530 --> 00:25:41,880 Vietnam and racism and God and sexism 590 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:45,540 and things of that nature or even a 591 00:25:51,050 --> 00:25:48,450 Vulcans sexual drive and has to get back 592 00:25:53,690 --> 00:25:51,060 to Vulcan to spawn you know these were 593 00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:53,700 not subjects they wanted and remember 594 00:25:57,620 --> 00:25:55,710 that episode where Kirk actually tries 595 00:26:00,620 --> 00:25:57,630 to rape his yeoman because it's right at 596 00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:00,630 Kirk is a transporter malfunction NBC 597 00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:02,670 blew a gasket over that thing I mean 598 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:04,740 they they there's mammals in the book 599 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:05,850 there where they're saying now this 600 00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:07,530 isn't really going to be play this way 601 00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:09,390 is it Roddenberry right oh no no he's 602 00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:12,840 just getting a little forward so he's on 603 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:16,620 top of the woman net and the ratings 604 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:17,290 drop 605 00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:18,730 I mean I've got the ratings for every 606 00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:20,740 episode in there and they're much better 607 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:22,840 than we were ever told no and I think 608 00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,730 that episode was winning it's time 609 00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:26,320 period for the first 30 minutes and 610 00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:28,420 right after that rape boom it goes to 611 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:31,750 number three and Stan Robertson of NBC 612 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:33,370 writes back and says we will not be 613 00:26:38,370 --> 00:26:35,170 running this episode don't ever do that 614 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:38,380 to us again and so on so they were 615 00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:42,010 always butting heads and remember also 616 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:44,320 this was America's first first look at 617 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:46,930 the miniskirt the ultra miniskirt no 618 00:26:52,770 --> 00:26:49,930 less so it I mean the mini made its 619 00:26:54,450 --> 00:26:52,780 debut in about six months earlier in 620 00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:54,460 England but it hadn't gotten over to 621 00:26:59,370 --> 00:26:56,200 America yet and you had those short 622 00:27:01,050 --> 00:26:59,380 short skirts and a lot of women nowadays 623 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:01,060 would say boys and that sexist that gene 624 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:03,790 roddenberry now it was Michelle Nichols 625 00:27:08,370 --> 00:27:06,490 and Grace Lee Whitney both told me they 626 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:08,380 would hike their skirts up to see who 627 00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:11,050 could get them higher oh my god and you 628 00:27:15,420 --> 00:27:13,390 know they they they were doing that they 629 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:15,430 both were dancers they both had great 630 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:17,110 legs and they wanted to show them off 631 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:19,330 and grace would see that in the show had 632 00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:21,010 kind of snuck hers up a little more so 633 00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:22,750 in the next episodes grace with sneakers 634 00:27:26,460 --> 00:27:25,060 up a little more and so forth I don't 635 00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,470 think Roddenberry minded at all but 636 00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:28,000 that's you know that was the ladies that 637 00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:30,760 were doing that and so NBC had a big 638 00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:33,220 problem with it it was their top rated 639 00:27:38,730 --> 00:27:35,710 Thursday night show the opening episode 640 00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:38,740 the first episode had a 47% audience 641 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:41,560 share and it was up against tough 642 00:27:45,690 --> 00:27:43,330 competition it was up against my three 643 00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:45,700 sons on CBS and bewitched on ABC and B 644 00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:49,360 which was ABC's top show and and about 645 00:27:53,790 --> 00:27:51,940 one third of the time Star Trek won its 646 00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,800 timeslot it beat bewitched the other 647 00:27:57,630 --> 00:27:55,600 other two-thirds of the time it came in 648 00:27:59,340 --> 00:27:57,640 number second or tie for number three 649 00:28:01,800 --> 00:27:59,350 but it was a close close race they were 650 00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:01,810 only divided by one or two ratings 651 00:28:06,570 --> 00:28:03,760 points so that's not a failure 652 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:06,580 by any means and yet NBC pushed it over 653 00:28:12,210 --> 00:28:10,210 to Friday nights and it lost some of its 654 00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:12,220 viewers but it was still their top rated 655 00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:13,990 show of the night and then they pushed 656 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:16,030 it to 10:00 p.m. on Friday nights which 657 00:28:19,890 --> 00:28:18,130 is a terrible timeslot and yet the 658 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:19,900 opening episode the notorious Spock's 659 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:22,450 brain won its timeslot and beat the 660 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:24,730 two-hour premiere of Hawaii five-o which 661 00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:27,490 went for 12 years so so all this 662 00:28:31,790 --> 00:28:29,790 folklore that's out there 663 00:28:33,650 --> 00:28:31,800 for 50 years now we've been hearing 664 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:33,660 about it was a failure on the network 665 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:37,050 not really it was no it was not in the 666 00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:39,690 top ten of the the Nelsons but they had 667 00:28:43,790 --> 00:28:41,820 seventy eighty shows on and Star Trek 668 00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,800 was usually right in the middle but the 669 00:28:48,650 --> 00:28:45,720 point is it was quite often winning its 670 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:48,660 timeslot or at least was the network's 671 00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:50,490 top rated show of that night you don't 672 00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:52,320 cancel your top rated show up at night 673 00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:55,020 and and so what it was really came down 674 00:29:01,600 --> 00:28:56,910 to was it was the fighting between NBC 675 00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:01,610 and Roddenberry over story content yeah 676 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:05,700 things like Plato's stepchildren the 677 00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:08,970 interracial kiss between Kirk and Nora 678 00:29:15,410 --> 00:29:12,990 and they they really came up with some 679 00:29:18,170 --> 00:29:15,420 episodes that you wouldn't see today 680 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:18,180 anywhere I mean they really explored 681 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:19,470 yeah 682 00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:21,330 and they had tried to do that three 683 00:29:24,410 --> 00:29:22,830 years earlier with the alternative 684 00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:24,420 factor but by the time they got to the 685 00:29:28,790 --> 00:29:26,820 third season they did but NBC still 686 00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:28,800 flipped out I mean the executives came 687 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:29,940 out and they were standing on the 688 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:31,890 sidelines and they insisted that they 689 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:35,730 not actually touched lips and so and 690 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:38,850 Roddenberry was called to the set and 691 00:29:42,890 --> 00:29:41,130 and by Fred Freiburger who was producing 692 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:42,900 that year but he called Ronon brain he 693 00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:44,210 said you better get down here 694 00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:47,910 NBC won't let us roll cameras and and so 695 00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:49,620 he came down and he and they said you 696 00:29:53,540 --> 00:29:51,990 know they cannot touch lips and he says 697 00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:53,550 we'll look well we'll fight about this 698 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:56,070 later let's let's have them kiss in one 699 00:29:59,780 --> 00:29:57,810 take and we'll have them just kind of 700 00:30:02,450 --> 00:29:59,790 touch each other's cheeks and the other 701 00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:02,460 take and then we'll fight about it later 702 00:30:07,220 --> 00:30:04,740 in post-production and so they shot it 703 00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:07,230 both ways what NBC didn't see is that 704 00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:08,910 for the scene where they didn't touch 705 00:30:15,410 --> 00:30:12,030 lips Shatner the camera was on him and 706 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:15,420 he crossed his eyes so the taste is 707 00:30:22,550 --> 00:30:20,490 unusable so they so you know the fight 708 00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:22,560 went to the very very end and there was 709 00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:24,390 an episode in that last year too called 710 00:30:27,890 --> 00:30:25,860 the mark of Gideon which was about 711 00:30:31,310 --> 00:30:27,900 overpopulation now it's not a subject 712 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:31,320 they wanted to talk about and the the 713 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:34,140 episodes is fairly good but the the 714 00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:36,690 first draft scripts are incredible and 715 00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:38,790 the network just took so much stuff out 716 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:40,590 of those scripts so much stuff was 717 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:42,810 censored out that by the time they got 718 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:43,650 in front of the cam 719 00:30:47,660 --> 00:30:45,330 was not anywhere near as good as it 720 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:47,670 could have been hmm 721 00:30:53,180 --> 00:30:50,400 now you as a writer though I mean you 722 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:53,190 know you you would you that really has 723 00:30:56,930 --> 00:30:54,690 to stick with you though but I mean 724 00:30:59,390 --> 00:30:56,940 seeing the original first drafts 725 00:31:02,120 --> 00:30:59,400 of these episodes and then seeing how 726 00:31:06,530 --> 00:31:02,130 they finally ended up I mean that really 727 00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:06,540 has to stick with you it does and and I 728 00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:08,430 would like I wish I could say that they 729 00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:12,240 were rewritten to be better a lot of 730 00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:13,980 them were because you had Dorothy 731 00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,020 Fontana rewriting scripts and Jean [\h__\h] 732 00:31:19,850 --> 00:31:18,480 and they were so good and Bob justman as 733 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:19,860 you see in those books gave such 734 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:22,650 incredible notes and funny funny memos 735 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:25,530 to boot so they they really work these 736 00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:28,530 scripts hard and and and everything but 737 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:30,240 you're still dealing with the network 738 00:31:33,919 --> 00:31:32,490 but saying you can't do that you got to 739 00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:33,929 take this out you got to take that out 740 00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:36,960 and so forth and you're also dealing 741 00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:39,030 with the the production end can we 742 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:40,830 afford to do this there were a lot of 743 00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:42,450 scripts written for that of that 744 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:44,070 original series that didn't get produced 745 00:31:48,380 --> 00:31:46,130 by famous science fiction authors that 746 00:31:51,790 --> 00:31:48,390 they weren't able to shoot because they 747 00:31:54,530 --> 00:31:51,800 were either too risque or too expensive 748 00:31:57,740 --> 00:31:54,540 well and naturally I have to think about 749 00:31:59,860 --> 00:31:57,750 a city on the edge of forever which the 750 00:32:02,690 --> 00:31:59,870 original the original script while 751 00:32:04,940 --> 00:32:02,700 brilliant would have just been I mean 752 00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:04,950 there just it was just so outside of the 753 00:32:08,419 --> 00:32:07,440 Star Trek Canon oh no you could not yeah 754 00:32:10,490 --> 00:32:08,429 that would have been it had to have been 755 00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:10,500 a feature film with a major major budget 756 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:13,590 and I knew Harlan god bless and we just 757 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:16,590 lost him recently and I was scared to 758 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:18,210 death when that the first volume came 759 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:20,010 out because I interviewed Harlan and 760 00:32:24,169 --> 00:32:22,890 Harlan was tough he Dorothy Fontana to 761 00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:24,179 this day is scared of him and he's not 762 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:28,440 even alive anymore yes but but sitting 763 00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:29,910 on the edge of forever went through so 764 00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:33,540 many rewrites the Dorothy did the first 765 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:35,910 rewrite and then Gene [\h__\h] came in and 766 00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:37,170 did another rewrite and then Gene 767 00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:38,790 Roddenberry came in and did another and 768 00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:41,100 each draft is so you know so much 769 00:32:46,190 --> 00:32:42,750 further away from what Harlan was 770 00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:46,200 originally writing that Dorothy said she 771 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:47,790 was just terrified she said don't tell 772 00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:49,860 Harland I did a rewrite on this I don't 773 00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:50,760 want my name on it 774 00:32:55,310 --> 00:32:53,880 you know he'll kill me and everything so 775 00:32:56,750 --> 00:32:55,320 I interviewed him I interviewed 776 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:56,760 everybody else I went through all the 777 00:32:59,170 --> 00:32:57,290 drafts 778 00:33:00,580 --> 00:32:59,180 script and then I wrote my chapter and 779 00:33:02,770 --> 00:33:00,590 that's one of the bigger chapters in the 780 00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:02,780 book it's like 20 pages because there's 781 00:33:06,970 --> 00:33:04,640 so much drama that went on behind the 782 00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:06,980 scenes and getting that up so made and 783 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:09,110 and my publisher sent a copy to 784 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:11,210 everybody I'd interviewed and including 785 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:14,510 Harlan and a few days later my phone 786 00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:16,130 rings I'm at my desk and I look down and 787 00:33:24,190 --> 00:33:18,080 I see Harlan Ellison on my phone and I 788 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:24,200 go oh god oh yeah and I picked up the 789 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:26,450 phone thinking I'm just gonna get torn 790 00:33:31,330 --> 00:33:29,330 to shreds here because you know I said 791 00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:31,340 would you just said 10 lies I said you 792 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:33,590 know that well Harlan's original script 793 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:35,810 was brilliant it couldn't have been made 794 00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:37,910 on a TV budget and it really wasn't Star 795 00:33:42,670 --> 00:33:40,640 Trek and what they ended up doing is 796 00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:42,680 they made a classic episode that is 797 00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:45,440 brilliant in every way possible and 798 00:33:50,590 --> 00:33:47,960 Harlan's stories is still there but they 799 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:50,600 they made it Star Trek and they made it 800 00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:52,850 something they could shoot and I said 801 00:33:57,610 --> 00:33:54,830 that in two chapters so when I saw his 802 00:34:00,220 --> 00:33:57,620 name on the phone I'm dead and I 803 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:00,230 answered the phone he said Cushman yes 804 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:02,690 Harlan he said I got I read your book 805 00:34:10,750 --> 00:34:08,570 yeah okay and he said I got I I would 806 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:10,760 call it awesome except I reserved that 807 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:12,890 word for the Grand Canyon and Eleanor 808 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:15,770 Roosevelt and he said when it comes 809 00:34:21,130 --> 00:34:19,850 close and man I mean I sighed so loud 810 00:34:24,850 --> 00:34:21,140 the neighbors probably heard it I 811 00:34:28,150 --> 00:34:24,860 thought if I just dodged a bullet but he 812 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:28,160 was a terrific guy scary sometimes but 813 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:29,810 terrific he was scary because he was so 814 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:32,510 smart and he was so witty and and he 815 00:34:43,150 --> 00:34:34,250 could use that wit just to cut you to 816 00:34:45,850 --> 00:34:43,160 pieces if you dared him all right okay 817 00:34:47,409 --> 00:34:45,860 now while I would love to continue 818 00:34:50,380 --> 00:34:47,419 talking about Star Trek for the rest of 819 00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:50,390 the show there's other books that that 820 00:34:55,090 --> 00:34:52,730 you have written that I want to bring up 821 00:34:58,900 --> 00:34:55,100 and and we talked about this during the 822 00:35:01,660 --> 00:34:58,910 break you've written a two-volume set 823 00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:01,670 which the first volume is out about the 824 00:35:07,540 --> 00:35:05,060 Moody Blues yes and yeah we had a lot of 825 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:07,550 fun during the break that could be a 826 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:10,490 show you could play that another time I 827 00:35:15,250 --> 00:35:12,890 love the Moody Blues and and you know 828 00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:15,260 because I love I love the Beatles and 829 00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:17,030 you know I was a kid in the sixties I 830 00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:19,040 had three older sisters I didn't buy my 831 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:21,230 first record album until like 1972 when 832 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:23,330 I was in the ninth grade or eighth grade 833 00:35:28,270 --> 00:35:26,090 but but I I grew up hearing this music 834 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:28,280 because my sisters were always planted 835 00:35:31,810 --> 00:35:30,050 and the Beatles were just great 836 00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:31,820 songwriters and they had such terrific 837 00:35:36,940 --> 00:35:34,400 melodies and such interesting lyric and 838 00:35:39,490 --> 00:35:36,950 and so forth and great themes to their 839 00:35:41,530 --> 00:35:39,500 albums as well so the Moody Blues kind 840 00:35:44,830 --> 00:35:41,540 of picked up on that and and they took 841 00:35:47,650 --> 00:35:44,840 it to the next level and they did a 842 00:35:50,410 --> 00:35:47,660 couple first I mean first of all Days of 843 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:50,420 Future past was the first concept rock 844 00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:53,210 album and and some people can argue that 845 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:54,350 and say wait a minute Sergeant Pepper 846 00:35:58,510 --> 00:35:56,450 came out six months earlier well it's 847 00:36:00,370 --> 00:35:58,520 not really a concept album I mean you 848 00:36:02,020 --> 00:36:00,380 got the opening and ending cuts where 849 00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:02,030 they say we're Sgt pepper's band but 850 00:36:07,150 --> 00:36:03,710 other than that none of the songs really 851 00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:07,160 tie into any specific theme so when the 852 00:36:10,359 --> 00:36:08,510 Moody Blues did Days of Future past 853 00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:10,369 which was just going through the day 854 00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:13,520 from dawn as a feeling to Tuesday 855 00:36:17,530 --> 00:36:16,070 afternoons and nice and moist at and you 856 00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:17,540 know they just took you through that 857 00:36:23,890 --> 00:36:20,480 journey with these great melodies great 858 00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:23,900 production great singing but interesting 859 00:36:28,540 --> 00:36:26,480 lyric and I don't know anybody from that 860 00:36:30,580 --> 00:36:28,550 era and I was listening to these albums 861 00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:30,590 more in the 70s when I was a little 862 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:32,750 older but but we always turned the 863 00:36:37,830 --> 00:36:34,490 lights out and lit candles you listen to 864 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:37,840 Moody Blues albums at night you know and 865 00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:41,210 and and so it was just a whole nother 866 00:36:47,890 --> 00:36:45,200 level another plane to go to by my 867 00:36:50,230 --> 00:36:47,900 Fender Mike Pender was into out-of-body 868 00:36:51,970 --> 00:36:50,240 experiences and and all that stuff so 869 00:36:55,090 --> 00:36:51,980 there's a lot of ghosts in those closets 870 00:36:56,740 --> 00:36:55,100 and there's a lot of fun in those lyric 871 00:36:57,609 --> 00:36:56,750 and the journeys they took they loved 872 00:36:59,410 --> 00:36:57,619 Star Trek 873 00:37:01,840 --> 00:36:59,420 they did some science fiction themed 874 00:37:05,170 --> 00:37:01,850 albums to our children's children's 875 00:37:08,109 --> 00:37:05,180 children and and so forth and balance of 876 00:37:10,690 --> 00:37:08,119 question of balance and and so forth and 877 00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:10,700 and they're just I still love listening 878 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:12,320 to those albums thanks to me they 879 00:37:18,370 --> 00:37:16,010 haven't aged same here and I love octave 880 00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:18,380 I guess they just mentioned as often but 881 00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:20,960 I happen to hear it first and I've got 882 00:37:27,059 --> 00:37:23,920 memories memories with it especially 883 00:37:32,099 --> 00:37:27,069 but all I was really and I just this is 884 00:37:35,940 --> 00:37:32,109 drift was beautiful look what a melody 885 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:35,950 oh and what a lyric oh so haunting well 886 00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:37,210 nobody had written a book on the Moody 887 00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:40,089 Blues and and what happens it is yeah a 888 00:37:44,910 --> 00:37:43,119 couple of years ago I had finished this 889 00:37:46,589 --> 00:37:44,920 other book series on some Irwin Allen 890 00:37:49,410 --> 00:37:46,599 shows which I was asked to do and I was 891 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:49,420 happy to do it because voice policy and 892 00:37:54,269 --> 00:37:51,490 loss of space predated Star Trek and I 893 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:54,279 really wanted to see how he did what he 894 00:37:59,339 --> 00:37:56,650 did which pretty much allowed Star Trek 895 00:38:01,170 --> 00:37:59,349 to get on the air and it kind of showed 896 00:38:02,309 --> 00:38:01,180 that a show like that could be done and 897 00:38:05,579 --> 00:38:02,319 then Roddenberry took it to another 898 00:38:08,490 --> 00:38:05,589 level a more mature level but but he you 899 00:38:10,650 --> 00:38:08,500 know if it would open the door so I just 900 00:38:13,650 --> 00:38:10,660 finished those and and they wanted me to 901 00:38:16,019 --> 00:38:13,660 and I wanted to do these books that are 902 00:38:17,789 --> 00:38:16,029 just coming out now on Gene Roddenberry 903 00:38:19,019 --> 00:38:17,799 and Star Trek in the 1970s but I had to 904 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:19,029 take a break from that and do something 905 00:38:23,970 --> 00:38:21,490 else just to get you know switch it up 906 00:38:26,339 --> 00:38:23,980 for myself and I was listening to moody 907 00:38:28,410 --> 00:38:26,349 blues and I and I went on to Amazon to 908 00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:28,420 see if there was a book about them and 909 00:38:31,650 --> 00:38:29,710 there wasn't and I could not believe 910 00:38:33,870 --> 00:38:31,660 nobody had written a book on the Moody 911 00:38:36,089 --> 00:38:33,880 Blues so I called my publisher and 912 00:38:38,009 --> 00:38:36,099 turned out Stephen Cates who's director 913 00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,019 of operations and Sandra Burl's who's 914 00:38:42,779 --> 00:38:40,960 the project coordinator I said you know 915 00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,789 I want to do a book on Moody Blues and 916 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:44,640 both have said we love the Moody Blues 917 00:38:50,220 --> 00:38:48,490 do it do it and and so we did that and I 918 00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:50,230 interviewed ray Thomas and Mike Pender a 919 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:52,750 fact it was the last interview Ray 920 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:54,910 Thomas gave before he unexpectedly 921 00:39:00,089 --> 00:38:57,970 passed away and the book came out to 922 00:39:02,130 --> 00:39:00,099 coincide with him being inducted into 923 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:02,140 the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and so 924 00:39:06,809 --> 00:39:03,910 forth so I'm really happy with that book 925 00:39:09,450 --> 00:39:06,819 and we're the the final volume which 926 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:09,460 covers the 1980s with long-distance 927 00:39:17,309 --> 00:39:13,210 Voyager and they kind of retooled Moody 928 00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:17,319 Blues comes out for Christmas know 929 00:39:22,170 --> 00:39:20,529 fantastic I'll have to definitely get 930 00:39:24,180 --> 00:39:22,180 both of those because unfortunately I 931 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:24,190 did not know that even volume wanted 932 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:35,430 seventies I do what I do with the TV 933 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:37,690 shows like Star Trek and ice 934 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:39,490 so forth every episode has its own 935 00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,650 chapter so with Moody Blues every album 936 00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:43,839 has its own chapter so you're going 937 00:39:49,380 --> 00:39:46,150 through the history of the band album by 938 00:39:51,390 --> 00:39:49,390 album concert tour by concert tour and 939 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:51,400 you've seen them grow and grow and I 940 00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:52,690 didn't know a lot of stuff I didn't know 941 00:39:58,289 --> 00:39:54,910 that they were one of the maybe even the 942 00:40:01,289 --> 00:39:58,299 number one band in the world in 1972 and 943 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:01,299 73 they were breaking box-office records 944 00:40:06,539 --> 00:40:03,730 in places Led Zeppelin couldn't even 945 00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:06,549 fill up no I think they even beat Elvis 946 00:40:10,349 --> 00:40:08,950 they went into a stadium that a giant 947 00:40:12,270 --> 00:40:10,359 stadium and they were there like the 948 00:40:14,789 --> 00:40:12,280 weekend after Elvis was there and this 949 00:40:17,309 --> 00:40:14,799 was maybe in 73 and I think they even 950 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:17,319 broke his record I would have to have 951 00:40:21,539 --> 00:40:18,490 the book in front of me to tell you the 952 00:40:23,549 --> 00:40:21,549 numbers but they just did remarkable 953 00:40:27,809 --> 00:40:23,559 business people were very very much into 954 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:27,819 them and and for good reasons mm all 955 00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:30,010 right now you you we're gonna have to 956 00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,630 definitely bring this up before run out 957 00:40:36,329 --> 00:40:33,760 of time during the break you you 958 00:40:38,819 --> 00:40:36,339 mentioned that you have had some 959 00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:38,829 personal ghostly experiences which I 960 00:40:44,279 --> 00:40:40,720 mean that's our bread and butter here on 961 00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:44,289 this show that yes you know I've always 962 00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:47,200 been open-minded to everything and I've 963 00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:48,760 always believed more than not believed 964 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:51,420 but I didn't have any set ideas about it 965 00:40:58,650 --> 00:40:54,250 but in 1974 I was living up in San 966 00:41:02,099 --> 00:40:58,660 Francisco as I think eighteen and in 967 00:41:03,870 --> 00:41:02,109 this old old house that just had a lot 968 00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:03,880 of weird vibes in a lot of cold spots 969 00:41:10,529 --> 00:41:07,980 and everything and this is when the the 970 00:41:12,930 --> 00:41:10,539 SLA we're doing their stuff and and just 971 00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:12,940 everybody felt very tense and I just 972 00:41:16,319 --> 00:41:14,950 seen the Exorcist that came out and I 973 00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,329 went home and I couldn't get to sleep 974 00:41:20,579 --> 00:41:18,640 because that movie really really spooked 975 00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:20,589 me so I turned on the radio and I was 976 00:41:26,220 --> 00:41:23,470 listening to some talk radio and it was 977 00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:26,230 kind of like your show that wasn't 978 00:41:30,930 --> 00:41:29,440 helping me to get to sleep and I finally 979 00:41:34,049 --> 00:41:30,940 turned the light out and turn the radio 980 00:41:36,329 --> 00:41:34,059 off and I hear this creak in this closet 981 00:41:38,039 --> 00:41:36,339 doors opening and I turned looked out 982 00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:38,049 and stared stared at it for probably 10 983 00:41:42,510 --> 00:41:40,329 minutes and it didn't move an inch and I 984 00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:42,520 fell asleep and I hear a creaking I open 985 00:41:47,309 --> 00:41:44,500 and it's opened another foot and this 986 00:41:48,690 --> 00:41:47,319 went on and on and and then the next 987 00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:48,700 night that happened I would close the 988 00:41:51,390 --> 00:41:50,079 door and make sure that the handle was 989 00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,400 turned so it could not 990 00:41:55,470 --> 00:41:53,920 open unless you turn the handle and sure 991 00:41:58,170 --> 00:41:55,480 enough it starts opening during the 992 00:42:01,830 --> 00:41:58,180 night and so I piled stuff up against 993 00:42:04,770 --> 00:42:01,840 that door and this is my parents house 994 00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:04,780 and then I moved out and one of my 995 00:42:08,610 --> 00:42:06,670 sisters took that room over and she's 996 00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:08,620 and she saw the stuff I had piled up 997 00:42:12,510 --> 00:42:09,760 there she said you're crazy 998 00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:12,520 I said well you'll see and the next one 999 00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:14,560 I went home to visit and at Thanksgiving 1000 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:17,350 I went up there and went into the room 1001 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:19,450 and she had things stacked against that 1002 00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,930 door 1003 00:42:24,810 --> 00:42:22,000 she said there's something in that that 1004 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:24,820 room and so you know it's one of those 1005 00:42:29,370 --> 00:42:26,770 things that kind of opens your mind and 1006 00:42:31,710 --> 00:42:29,380 a lot of possibilities but to tie that 1007 00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:31,720 into Star Trek I got a gun talk fast 1008 00:42:35,610 --> 00:42:33,340 were running out of time here tied into 1009 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:35,620 Star Trek when I was running this book 1010 00:42:40,290 --> 00:42:37,090 you know gene got me started but he 1011 00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:40,300 passed away and I was busy in TV so I 1012 00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:41,920 didn't have time to really get into 1013 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:44,110 these and they kind of sat there and I 1014 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:45,850 kept interviewing people and finally I 1015 00:42:50,910 --> 00:42:47,410 broke ground and started writing them 1016 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:50,920 and he had passed away and I'm telling 1017 00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:52,570 you you know and I've never said this on 1018 00:42:58,110 --> 00:42:55,900 a radio show before but you know I felt 1019 00:43:00,510 --> 00:42:58,120 like he was standing right behind me 1020 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:00,520 looking over my shoulder as I was 1021 00:43:04,350 --> 00:43:02,050 writing stuff and I would start writing 1022 00:43:06,930 --> 00:43:04,360 something and then I would stop not even 1023 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:06,940 knowing why kind of like when Robert 1024 00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:08,290 Plant and Jimmy Page were writing 1025 00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:10,720 stairway to heaven and they felt like 1026 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:13,150 the pen was moving itself you know I 1027 00:43:16,410 --> 00:43:14,890 would kind of pull back and suddenly 1028 00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:16,420 this other stuff had come into my head 1029 00:43:19,770 --> 00:43:18,040 and I'd go no I think I have this wrong 1030 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:19,780 and I would it was like something was 1031 00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,210 guiding me and then the punch line of 1032 00:43:27,210 --> 00:43:24,400 this is just recently I was at 1033 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:27,220 Roddenberry entertainment doing research 1034 00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:28,930 for the new books they're just coming 1035 00:43:32,850 --> 00:43:31,270 out and going through the Roddenberry 1036 00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,860 vaults and all of his paperwork and 1037 00:43:37,470 --> 00:43:34,480 everything else and there's a picture 1038 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:37,480 hanging on the wall of Susan sack and 1039 00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:39,730 his assistant in the mid-70s when they 1040 00:43:43,380 --> 00:43:41,350 got their first computer with the tiny 1041 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:43,390 little screen probably a caper or 1042 00:43:47,730 --> 00:43:45,490 something and jeans standing there 1043 00:43:50,070 --> 00:43:47,740 behind her leaning forward looking over 1044 00:43:53,130 --> 00:43:50,080 her shoulder looking at the screen as 1045 00:43:55,380 --> 00:43:53,140 she's typing and I saw that thing and it 1046 00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:55,390 just went my god that's what he was 1047 00:44:01,080 --> 00:43:58,480 doing to me and I know in my heart I 1048 00:44:02,910 --> 00:44:01,090 know he was standing behind me 1049 00:44:05,340 --> 00:44:02,920 I have no practice he was the one who 1050 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:05,350 said yeah he said take these memos and 1051 00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:07,330 do the book and Bob justman said that 1052 00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:09,310 too which is why at the top of the book 1053 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:10,720 my publish and put that thing on there 1054 00:44:14,730 --> 00:44:12,850 the story gene roddenberry and Robert H 1055 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:14,740 adjustment when did you know because 1056 00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:17,170 they they said these memos need to be 1057 00:44:21,570 --> 00:44:19,720 out there we want people to see what we 1058 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:21,580 went through and how much we cared and 1059 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:23,530 so I'm putting those memos in and try 1060 00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:25,210 and like Timmy said here must have been 1061 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:27,550 stuff you left off of course but you 1062 00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:28,930 know I'm trying to decide what to put in 1063 00:44:33,180 --> 00:44:30,550 whatnot and that's when I would get that 1064 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:33,190 feel where my my ears would kind of 1065 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:34,450 tickle a little bit and I felt like 1066 00:44:38,490 --> 00:44:36,610 somebody was right round on my shoulder 1067 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:38,500 say no don't put in that part put in 1068 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:41,050 this part hmm very interesting 1069 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:45,490 experience Oh experiences connected to 1070 00:44:51,630 --> 00:44:48,970 Star Trek that are that are paranormal I 1071 00:44:57,390 --> 00:44:51,640 really have I kid I won't go in right 1072 00:44:59,490 --> 00:44:57,400 now but I believe you know a mind like 1073 00:45:01,920 --> 00:44:59,500 Gene Roddenberry doesn't stop the body 1074 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:01,930 may stop that the mind doesn't that's 1075 00:45:06,570 --> 00:45:04,090 all I gotta say about it no no I agree 1076 00:45:08,610 --> 00:45:06,580 with that and I mean you know you see 1077 00:45:11,850 --> 00:45:08,620 the evidence of that considering how 1078 00:45:13,770 --> 00:45:11,860 Star Trek is still significant today I 1079 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:13,780 mean you know there are new shows and 1080 00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:15,610 you know people like us still talking 1081 00:45:20,370 --> 00:45:17,910 about it I'm always saying that I think 1082 00:45:23,070 --> 00:45:20,380 the inspiration of it might have been a 1083 00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:23,080 stream of consciousness from the future 1084 00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:25,990 not not in detail like the Council of 1085 00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:29,560 nine stuff but just some kind of 1086 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:32,740 powerful because the future exists now 1087 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:35,890 according to all the physicists so 1088 00:45:42,210 --> 00:45:39,970 anyway won't go into it but I cover the 1089 00:45:44,250 --> 00:45:42,220 Council of nine in in volume two of this 1090 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:44,260 to book set the first volume just came 1091 00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:46,450 out gene roddenberry in the 1970s in 1092 00:45:50,580 --> 00:45:48,760 Star Trek and very interesting stuff 1093 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:50,590 there I didn't know very much about it 1094 00:45:53,790 --> 00:45:51,130 at all 1095 00:45:55,740 --> 00:45:53,800 and and I found stuff in the Roddenberry 1096 00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,750 vault but I believe her transcripts of 1097 00:45:59,460 --> 00:45:58,000 him talking to a channeler and so I've 1098 00:46:00,540 --> 00:45:59,470 included some of it in the book and I'll 1099 00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:00,550 probably hear from somebody saying 1100 00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:02,590 that's not real somebody made that up or 1101 00:46:08,420 --> 00:46:05,440 but it's in his files you know and it is 1102 00:46:13,170 --> 00:46:10,560 all right well we're almost out of time 1103 00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:13,180 here so why don't you let our audience 1104 00:46:16,819 --> 00:46:14,430 know 1105 00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:16,829 where they can find your books and you 1106 00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:20,160 know and your online presence well they 1107 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:22,020 can find out your house and a Diane's 1108 00:46:28,370 --> 00:46:26,130 house you of course everything's at 1109 00:46:30,380 --> 00:46:28,380 Amazon and Barnes & Noble but the best 1110 00:46:32,059 --> 00:46:30,390 places is to go to the publisher because 1111 00:46:34,010 --> 00:46:32,069 you can get those autographed and if you 1112 00:46:36,289 --> 00:46:34,020 want inscribe you can type in what you 1113 00:46:37,819 --> 00:46:36,299 want me to write and and all those get 1114 00:46:40,220 --> 00:46:37,829 signed and inscribed before they're sent 1115 00:46:42,589 --> 00:46:40,230 out to you and that's Jacobs Brown Media 1116 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:42,599 Group calm that's hard to remember so 1117 00:46:45,859 --> 00:46:44,130 you can just go to these of the voyages 1118 00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:45,869 books calm and it'll take you to their 1119 00:46:52,849 --> 00:46:49,079 website as well alright and anything in 1120 00:46:54,250 --> 00:46:52,859 that you're working on now that you can 1121 00:46:59,210 --> 00:46:54,260 give us a hint of what to look out for 1122 00:47:02,180 --> 00:46:59,220 how much time do I have well well the 1123 00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,190 Volume one of the 1970s books just came 1124 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:03,839 out volume 2 will be out at the end of 1125 00:47:07,579 --> 00:47:05,730 the summer that covers the animated 1126 00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:07,589 series it covers the first motion 1127 00:47:13,370 --> 00:47:09,630 picture the aborted Phase two the the 1128 00:47:15,140 --> 00:47:13,380 Council of nine his TV pilots all that 1129 00:47:17,269 --> 00:47:15,150 stuff in the fight to bring Star Trek 1130 00:47:18,740 --> 00:47:17,279 back and the other thing we just came 1131 00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:18,750 out that we're really excited about is 1132 00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:21,900 my publishers done an audiobook which is 1133 00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:25,140 really an audio play of my first volume 1134 00:47:29,569 --> 00:47:27,270 a season one of the original series it's 1135 00:47:31,789 --> 00:47:29,579 got a hundred people in it including DC 1136 00:47:33,769 --> 00:47:31,799 Fontana reading her own memos Rod 1137 00:47:35,329 --> 00:47:33,779 Roddenberry's in there Chris Doohan 1138 00:47:37,339 --> 00:47:35,339 comes in and does clothes for his dad 1139 00:47:41,029 --> 00:47:37,349 Adam Nimoy comes in and does the quotes 1140 00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:41,039 for his dad and on and on and vic 1141 00:47:48,589 --> 00:47:45,359 Mignogna and a half degree to end it 1142 00:47:50,059 --> 00:47:48,599 here so unfortunately mark diane thank 1143 00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:50,069 you very much for being with his fit 1144 00:48:05,769 --> 00:48:01,809 you've been listening to exploring the 1145 00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:05,779 bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley and T 1146 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:09,049 Swartz they're taking back the nights by 1147 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:11,930 jetting non-stop across the cosmos in 1148 00:48:18,319 --> 00:48:14,450 search of the truly bizarre and totally 1149 00:48:20,799 --> 00:48:18,329 unexplained with you as they're cold 1150 00:48:23,210 --> 00:48:20,809 Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific 1151 00:48:26,530 --> 00:48:23,220 10:00 p.m. 1152 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:26,540 on the K cor digital radio 1153 00:48:32,410 --> 00:48:28,970 for more information on exploring the 1154 00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:32,420 bazaar and hosts timothy Beckley and tim 1155 00:48:38,350 --> 00:48:35,270 Swartz check out their kco our digital 1156 00:48:44,590 --> 00:48:38,360 radio network follow their YouTube